MARLENE GAYSEK #19/32 INTERVIEW:

Marlene Gaysek, IRS PR spokesperson

32/17... I recalled that there were a number of workers in the area who went to their employers and filed false W-4s...and they placed themselves in enormous fiscal jeoprody...33/000...I think it was about 200 people...

MARLENE GAYSEK #19/32

...33/10... around the time that GK went on television in W. texas ...almost 200 workers went to their employers and filed W-4 exemption forms which precluded their employers from withholding their own income taxes. Thus, 200 former compliant, law-abiding taxpayers placed themselves in enormous fiscal endangerment that they would not have enough paid in to cover their own taxes...33/45...and had some problems ahead of them...

...34/00...well that's one of the reasons that we developed a guide for the media so that they could ghelp their readers understand the felatciousness of these arguments so that anybody that really looked at these marketing points could see the lies in their arguments...and that the people who were in good stead with the IRS would not endanger their own circumstances by follwing these false teachings...34/37...

...34/51...well as far as selective prosecution, IRS selects people to prosecute because they fail to comply with the law, willfully fail to comply with the law...35/02...

certrainly we want to assure that people know what the consequences of following these same actions would be and part of the consequences is facing criminal prosecution...35/16...

and I'm not that familiar with the transcripts of the trial to know whether that is part of the argument,

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35/23...but, indeed this is one of the ways that the IRS and other govt. agencies select cases that we recommend for prosecution. that they serve as an example and also as deterence. So that people will, who are complying are confident that that they're complying for a good reason and to deter people from failing to comply...35/48...

(CUT W/ VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE ISSUE)

...36/04...well of course you're asking us to count a negative which is never easy to do...we know there are still people who try to drop out of the system that's getting harder and harder for us to, for people to do and easier and easier for us to find...What that means if you drop out of the system, you can't own a car, you can't get a driver's license, you can't buy property, you can't get a credit card, you can't take out a loan. So it's harder and harder for people to drop out of the system...36/40...

...our figures show that the people who are filing rthese types of tax protest returns are fairly consistent, the numbers are not growing...but of course trying to count what's not there it's hard to give you a figure...36/54...

...we do know that there is a hundred billion dollar tax gap...and that is, the projedtion of what our researchers tell us should be paid and is not. Some of this is attributable to tax protesters...

I'M PATRICK DORSEY AND I 'M CHIEF OF THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION DIV. HERE IN THE DALLAS DISTRICT...

...37/55... well, I guess my first real recollection of it, I wasn't familiar with the name GK, but I was familiar with the posse comitatus and the more violent tax protest groups in the mid-70s. In fact was involved with a number of investigations involving illegal tax protesters of the same ilk. The potential and dangerous nature of some of these people of course cause us to pay a lot of attention to them and their activities...In 1983 I was group manager in Macon , GA...it brought home how dangerous these individuals could be...

...38/49...it had a big effect around the coutry as it did with all law enforcement...

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...39/48...in a career with the IRS, I've been involved with a number of dangerous incident...we send out an armed agent to accompany them...

...40/57...one of the things I think about and you asked Gary this question, what, how does the public percieve us... these people that work here....don't have anything against us, we are the community, ...that's one of the things that strikes me, we are not the govt. we simply represent them, ...we are simply represtenataves of your govt....

....43/00 I hope we don't forget the two law enforcement people that we've lost...

...45/30...I absolutely do not agree. GK is not a folk hero, GK is a criminal! He's a murderer...he's not a folk hero...the man was a criminal and ended his life as a criminal...

...MARLENE...46/25...when he talked about the personal committement of our employees,...nobody likes to pay taxes...it is the citizens right to protest, but until those laws are changed they are expected to comply with them...46/50...Taxes are a very important part of our country they are the way we make sure our roads get built, that we can defend our country...healthful drugs, healthful meats...it is a very personal statement...the people that administer the tax laws are concerned about those same things. But when somebody violates them, we do not take it personally...47/39...

(CUT W/BUFORD SAYING THEY DO TAKE IT PERSONALLY)\

...if somebody says the tax laws stink...it's our job, we don't take it personally...

....48/23,...the gold standard was not addressed...one of the arguments is since we got off the gold standard, that value of our notes is not worth much so that people would pay their taxes in the value of 1967 dollars...I believe that was the year we went off the gold standard...48/55...

...however, the interesting point was, they would claim their refund in current dollars...so there were games that were played...you have 180K employees

...49/24...and if there was a legal way of getting out of paying taxes, certainly one of those 120K people would have come up with it. And all the arguments that we've heard, none of them hold water...the courts alll the way up to the supreme court have held in favor of the govt. on the side of the govt....if somebody sees this and says heh, that's not such a bad idea, we invite them to call us and talk with us about it and give us a chance to give the other side...49/58...

(SATAN RAP ABOVE)

M.GAYSEK#19/32

...50/32...Jeff when you first called me I was concerned you were going to do a documentary about all these wonderful ways that people don't have to pay taxes...and I was concerned about that because when any one of us renigs on our responsibility to pay our fair share, that means all the rest of us that are complying have to pull a heavier load... there's over a 100 billion dollars in the tax gap...and all of this comes from ordinary people who don't report cash, moonlighting, it comes from these little cheaters that's causing a hundred billion dollars in the tax gap and just think of the condition our country would be if we had that money right now, we wouldn't have the deficit we have...I think we'd all feel better...just the fact that you appreciate what you pay for...if you get something for nothing that's just what it's worth to you...51/57...

...and I think having a stake in your country is kind of a benefit of pay8ing taxes...it's makes you think I don't like this, I'm going to go vote...I like explaining the logic and the good things about the fed. govt. and it suprises a lot of people...it gives me a lot of pleasure to give people the good news side of the govt....it makes me feel proud that I do have some good things to talk to people about especially about the IRS...

56/07...we view the IRS as part of the solution instead of as part of the problem in our country... and it makes a difference when you can go to work everyday and make it count...I think every one of our 120K employees feel that way...