Loreen Kahl (Gordon's youngest daughter) & Roberta Stagg, family friend & a friend of Loreen's
LOREEN#22/31
ROBERTA=
33/05... well, this is how I feel, this is how I felt at the time, and I kept telling this interviewers, you don't want to interview me because I'm prejudice towards Mr. Kahl...Oh yes, we do, we want to hear your side...well, bullcrap, they did not...33/26...they wanted to hear someting nasty about him and
...I don't think there were many people , outside of some of the authority that had anything against Mr. Kahl...
...he was well liked in this town...they might have thought he had some opinions, but they had this to say, he never pushed it on them...34/05...
...34/39... what I couldn't understand is because the newspapers have fought for freedom of info. and the first amendment, that they didn't being a little less partial, it suprised me...but being a little independent we tried to get both sides of a story,...if there is two sides to a story...
...35/18...these people called down there, I told them before I ever talked to them , you don't want to hear my side because it's for Mr. Kahl, I can't say anything negative about him...oh yes we do, we want to hear your side of the story....I talked to a lot of people here in Crane...according to what they said to me, they never did have anything in their papers or newspapers that they did remark, because they were in favor of Mr. Kahl...and it just made us all a little mad, because why did they take the time to interview us, if they weren't going to put something in there on his side...36/18...(MEDIA)
...and even when the FBI called me, I can't remember this guys last name but his name was Bob. And, from waht I had seen on TV and from what I'd heard and read, I asked him, I said that was a setup, it was so obvious a setup up there...can you coment on it...he even said to me, he said I can't comment on it, but I know what you're talking about. Now he might not have said it in those exact words, but he left me with the impression that they went about it all wrong up there...37/09...
...well then when the marshal came down , he talked to me, i cannot even remember the man's name because I did not like his attitude and I didn't care...and he talked to me and then finally , I was sitting watching the news one night...37/28...
...on it, I might be jumping ahead of the story but I have got to get this out...
...37/34...I was sitting watching this news and here was this letter on channel 7 up there , all blacked out, certain parts of it blocked out, but it was to the effect that if they would go to Crane to a certain persons house in crane who had a basement, they would probably find Mr. Kahl...37/57...and about that time the telephone rang and my girlfriend called and said I think they're talking about you. And I said, I know they're talking about me. Because I'm about the only one in this town that has a basement...I think there might be one or two, but they didn't know him...
....so before I ever got the telephone back on it's cradle, the knock came at the door and here was the marshal and this FBI agent Bob. And I was from talking to bob I knew who he was, and as I opened the door I said, I was expecting you...and they said why? And I said I just saw it on television... and he said, are you the one? I said you know I'm the one because they blocked out the name...I cannot tell you , I have a strong suspcioin who done it, but I'd rather not remark about about it because I can't be sure it was this neighbor...so they came in, and we sat around and talked a little bit...
...39/08...and he said, is he here. And I said no sir he is not, in the first place he would not do that to a friend, he would not impose on us, on me...I said, but if it will satisfy you , I'll show you the basement, you can look thru the house all that you want, I don't care... So they said, if you don't mind, as long as we're here, we have to look in the basement go ahead, I took em down turned on the lights, the whole works...and I said, now if you want to look thru the rest of the house you're welcome to look ...you can do it on your own...they said no, I think we can belive you...39/53...
LORE2
..and we were sitting there and this marshal said to me, what would you do, if they had come to, if Mr. Kahl had been here. And I said I think I would have tried to talk him in to giving himself up...because I think he had a losing battle no matter what...they were going to get him...they were dead set on getting him and they were going to get him ...and he said then who would you call? and I said, every newspaper in town , every radio station, I said, everything that had to do with the media I would call...and have them come right here and then I would call you....40/41...
...And why would you do that? Because for the safety of Mr. Kahl...I said, I just have in the back of my mind you'd come in blasting...40/51...
...40/57... and the marshal was very, very upset, but he was out to get that man...41/06...
LAYNE= of all the things I ever read I never read a bad word about Mr. Kahl from just a regular person...41/15...
...and I don't know anybody in my whole life who I can say that about...not a single other person...not a bad word about him from a regular person...and I think that says it all right there...Who's the fanatic? And just look at those people and these marshals, he was onto them....and he was exposing his whole bag...41/43...
ROBERTA= ...41/44...I can remember when he had his trial over here in midland for income tax evasion, ...I was one of the witnesses . And believe me , the local police dept. at that time it was the local police chief of police, why he confided in me when he knew how I felt about them,... he said, we're going to get em! We're going to get em on that income tax...42/17... we're going to get em...so I went over and I told Gordon about this and he said, will you be a witness to that? And he said no matter what, that man is not going to go free. And I knew he wasn't going to. And Mr. Kahl knew he wasn't going to... They were going to get him one way or another...42/43...
...they had to get him, he said...
LOREEN= ...42/46... DADDY DIDN'T owe them any income tax. When he paid...you know, ...he paid more than what he owed. He always rounded his figures up...but when the time came,...when he said, this is it...and they even proved it in court...he didn't owe them. They ended up owing him...43/12...
(CUT W/JUDGES INSTRUCTIONS WHICH STATED, THIS IS NOT ABOUT GK OWING $ OR DEFRAUDING THE GOVT)
...
....43/57...you shouldn't have to. That's a joke if you ask me...it's a joke...
LAYNE...44/04... taxes are illegal, ...the constituiton was a piece of paper, now it's a big ole book....it was never meant to be more than a piece of paper...and taxes are illegal and he has the perfect argument...if I was a juror, I wouldn't convict him,,, it's illegal...and you know now, not a cent of that tax goes for any program, it just pays off the debt now...and this whole govt is just living on something that's not even there...44/32...and since they're the ones printing the money they can do that. But, the taxes, they're illegal, it's against the law to have to pay taxes and the constitution says as much...and so how can you convict someone of something like that? 44/44...
LOREEN= ...44/44...I JUST think that, you know, here's a man who refused to worship the govt as god. And they're just not going to have it...and they have set themselves up as god and you are going to worship them as god, I am going to worship them as god. ...and if we somewhere along the line get the crazy idea that it's not so, then they're going to exterminate us! ...45/09...
...and that's just,...I mean
LAYNE=....EVery human is forced to pay taxes. Forced to do all these things...if you believe in the bible which he did and I do, you know you'd have no other laws except gods...and all of this stuff is extra...
...45/27...I think it is Satanic...I really do, you know those those people if you do not follow them exactly, .you'll either go to prison for a long time and if you don't change your ways you'll stay there forever....or they'll kill you...and Mr. Kahl's living...45/41...as proof of that...and ...
ROBERTA= ....45/44...YOU KNOW AFTER HE GOT CONVICTED OF THIS INCOME TAX , he went to missouri, they gave him so many years, he fulfilled them and he told them before he ever got out, he siad, I have served my time and I will not be put on parole, so if you do not let me out as a free man, you keep me in here until I can and they let him out...46/13...
(CUT W/BROOM SAYING, SEE THIS IS WHERE HE SIGNED ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF PAROLE)
...and he felt that once they let him out that he was a free man and off of parole. and should have been watched or anything else because he had served his time...46/27...
LOREEN= ...46/41... Yea, I remember watching the program, I was probably about eleven or twelve years old...well I thought it was dallas, ...I mean I was little and I don't remember all the particulars about it...yeah, I think that was the beginning of the exposure...there was a lot of people after that that started to wake up and say heh, what's going on here. And I think that's where the threat began...47/24...initially. I think before that they just thought well, he's just a little old man that just, he's just opinionated, going around sharing his views...
...and then when he got on public television, I think they saw him as a potential leader and a threat to their program...47/47...
...well, like I said I grew up with this stuff, so...you know I didn't think too much about it...I wasn't really afraid, cause daddy wasn't the type of guy going around looking for threats...there had never been any threats made against him before...I had no reason to feel any fear or harm. ///
///it wasn't until he had to go to trial...that's when I started to get scared ....when I realized that this thing was starting to get a little bigger...48/30...at that point in time I was afraid he was going to end up in prison, that was my biggest fear then...I just, it is just totally the farthest from my mind ever that they would kill him...hunt him down like a dog and kill him...48/49...
(CUT W/HEADLINE)
...he's my daddy...
...49/00 (Loreen starts crying)...it was hard...you know I mean daddy had always been there...and then mom and I were alone...we had to go to work...I had to go to work too, we just had to do the best that we could do and try to be strong and hope that it wouldn't last too long...yes, I remember it was hard...
...49/58...I don't really recall any , that it changed him, daddy, that's one thing I always understood about him, he belived what he believed...aaand it, it's not , I don't believe he came out worse...it's just, I think he came out a little more realistic about...you know, I think prior to that point , that he thought that he could go to court and present himself as who he was and maybe get somewhere with the judicial system ...and I think after that he came out very disillusioned and maybe more realistic about even what he had thought prior, about the govt and the judicial system, I think he realized that it was a losing battle and that there was no way to win in the court system...50/54...
...I mean it was a kangaroo court and ...it's a joke and think that you can go into a court and win...it's their game, their rules...daddy , he was a very peacable man...he told them he'd never come looking for them. He'd never bother them...51/17...but he wanted to be left alone. And if they came looking for him . If they came infringing on him and his family then, ...they had better be ready and they were dumb enough to tempt him, to try him...51/34...
...and put him in a position to be responsible for his family...and that's exactly what happened and I don't think he should have done anything else... and I woouldn't give you a plug nichol for a man that would do anything else...51/51...
LOREEN#22/31
ROBERTA= ...52/27... you talking about these courts brings back something...I think gordon was picked up for speeding in the local courts here...we had this one judge and gordon wanted to defend himself...and the judge says, you cannot do this...and he comes back with the constitution verbatum, where it says you can, you can be your own defense...and the judge that was there, she asked the prosecuting attny. if you could do that...and even I know that you're not supposed to ask the prosecuting attny. if you can do this...53/30...
...in other words, gordon couldn't really defend himself..because she would keep stopping the trial and say, can he do this? Can he do this? And it was a farce... and of course he was guilty...and no matter what that man said, it was just like it went over the head of the judge or the prosecuting attny came in and said you can't do this..now I was at this trial and when I got thru and I just shook my head and said , my goodness we've got a judge that has to ask the prosecuting attny if he can do this?!...54/21...and belive me, I was informed later on that I had said these remarks...and I was accused of not liking her...I said it has nothing to do whether I like her or not, it has to do with her abilibty to sit on that court...
LOREEN= ...56/18... that's why daddy said he would never again go into the courtroom, there was no point in it and he was not going to do it...
LAYNE=...56/31...EVERYTHING THEY do is just a big production...everything that happened to her dad, it's planned and on a grander scale, everyone of our lives, all this crap, this berlin wall stuff and all this, there is something behind all this stuff and Mr. Kahl told it like it was...and it's there to look at ,,,it's just a big production...these people are playing with people's lives...and everyones', yours too, right now, it's real easy in america where we have so much and not see it...Mr. Kahl was right...I'm an average person and I figured it out on my own...I didn't start off reading the works of GK and come to this conclusion...I saw it for myself...and then , wow, Mr. Kahl said all that would happen and it's there for everyone to see... it's just a big production,,,you're not going to get a fair shake in those courtrooms...it's tyranny...there's no freedom in this country and whoever thinks it is, that persons an idiot and I'll take him to the library and I'll show him, just exactly, if they think that there's freedom...57/36...
...I'll show them what freedom amounts to, it's nothing...
59/57...LAYNE= ...CAUSE NOW IF YOU OPPOSE THE GOVT. YOU'LL GET KILLED. You really, it's the truth...it's not just Mr. Kahl, there's been other cases, you'll get shut up. You know a lot of people will go to prison before they make a stand. Like Mr. Kahl , that's why he's the greatest guy there is. Cause everyone else weasels out...If you don't do what they say, they'll put you away...in the past twenty years the govt. has become something new and it's about to really become something new...I think that people are going to see...you can't tell the govt....I mean you can go , come on guys, $800 for a toilet seat? ...but you can't...sure you can write a letter to the editor, but you can't ask for accountability from the politicians, cause initially you're goin to be harrassed and shut up ...and if yoiu take your harrassment and take it to the next step well they'll jail you and if you take it to the next step they'll kill you...23/00/58... it's been proven... look whoever keeps pushing issues, dead...
ROBERTA= ...23/01/07... have you ever noticed how many congressmen involved in the S&L scandal are in jail now? And yet, they spend millions and millions of dollars on these trials and for what? Because they're not going to do a thing to them. And yet, you and I, the little people. All we have to do is go out and steal a loaf of bread and we're put in jail for two or three years...01/33...
...because we need that bread...this is not justice and what I think they really need to do is have a whole cleanup of the justice system...
END TAPE @ 23/01/51