LORNA ADKINS INTERVIEW:

Lorna Adkins, Gordon's oldest living daughter,

LORNA#1

LORNA INTERVIEW:

TAPE O1:

LORNA#1

03/14 ...second to the oldest... linda, and then me, and Lonnie, then Yorie and then Freddie and then she's the last straw...

probably more temperment wise I'm most like him. I'm probably have the most patience...I think my mannerism is more gentle is the word I'm looking for...

04/20 ...you know where you had referred to him as the strong type, this isn't the projection I have at all, to me he was very meek, mild, humble, compassionate, patient, easy-going...not domineering or forceful or arrogant like it has been potrayed since this thing came out... one of the things that surprised me most was somebody thought he was six foot tall , this macho type, it surpised me because this is the image they got from TV, he was small, he was quiet, never pushy... the image they had him was like this wild western. To me that wasn't him at all.

05/43 ...in his inner convictions he was strong in his mannerisms he was very mild. ...this is why he was no threat, they wanted to portray him as a threat...it served their purpose...to instill fear in people. ....the things that he enjoyed in life were basic, like nature, he belived in smelling the roses along the way. he wasn't flamboyant or anything like this...

LORN1

06/48 (MEDIA) ...I felt like the image that they tried to portray across the television was that he would , he was dangerous, that he was a threat, they were trying to get people to help them find him.. If they'd portrayed him as he was, nobody would have tried to help them. What they were seeking was some help in trying to apprehend him ...if they had actually portrayed the truth they wouldn't have had any help and they knew it. ...so the portrayal had to be some vigilante type. ,,,I think from the very beginning they knew it was going to be difficult.

08/17 ...I thought the book was totally rediculous, from one end to another... as I read it, I thought Jim was on a bandwagon. ...I would have loved to see a book written that just showed the facts... he was on a bandwagon...this anti-semetic thing...the view that he, say jewish people that he had hard feelings, they had names, they were certain highpowered political people, they weren't just jewish. people. ...it was like he was ...the book should have been entitled, "Anti-semitic", this was all I heard in it. every few lines, he was trying to bring a point across, becasue anytime you bring out racism, it stirs people up ,,,this is the only point of this book was he's antisemitic , so he's got to be bad. these people have names, ...the book from one end to another was just ridiculous.

11/07 ...I thought for a person of Jim Corcoran's status that it was a comic book

...I was disappointed, I was anxious to read this book he covered this in ND, I thought this is going to be the book, to cover the facts, what happened, how it came about...the mistakes that were made on both sides. ...somewhere, sometime down the line that the facts come out ... and whether it's bad for dad or for the govt., let the chips fall where they may... I would just love to see the truth come out.

13/33 ...Well see, this is how, terrorism comes under different degrees, this is just another form of terrorism, some people want to call it retatialtion... we as americans are appalled when we see it in other countries and then it happens right here on on front door step, it's just terrorism, that's all it is. (CUT W/AJAY'S definition of "Terrorism" & w/Anita's, "If the American people knew about political prisoners here in our own country...")

14/32 (Loreen) ...no I hadn't read it. Anything that I had read was just a bunch of garbage...it makes me real angry...I can't deal with it real well, ...it's been something I haven't talked about very much ...it's been real hard to deal with, the atrocities that happened...and how life's just gone on, and our family's been destoyed...I get really sick of the sensationalism, that was one of the things that all thru the years since Medina, it's really disgusted me. I haven't had the patience to go thru it. I guess I've been ignorant about it all...I guess call it self=preservation...it's just my own coping mechanism

15/54 ...I guess the reason I'm more object...I'd talk to dad about it so many times...because I knew sooner or later that something could go wrong..anytime that you're anti=anything, it doesn't matter there's always another side ..a pro and an anit, it can cause problesm...

LORNA#1

16/15...I talked to him about this ...he always called me bug, he said, "oh, Bug, I'm not the first Christian that will be thrown to the lions and I won't be the last.." and I knew he knew what he was up against. And I knew that nothing was going to change his mind and I tried everything to change his mind. ...just lay low, leave it alone, drop it, you're an oldman, you're not going to live much longer ... I tried every tactic on this, and when I quit, the day I quit was the day he told me,

17/14 ..."don't you understand, it's not that I won't, it's that I can't. And that I can understand, so then I quit. I knew he knew what he was doing. I knew he knew the purpose of it and I knew that he knew the price and that eventually it could cost him his life. and I knew that he felt that he was doing the right thing, so when he told me it's not that I won't it's that I can't, just leave it alone ...so I dropped it.

18/05 (LORNA WIPING TEARS)

18/36 ,,,he was a real good father, he was real gentle... for a long time there was just the two of us, linda and me, she was real hyper and I was real gentle...

18/56 ...my first memory of him and my last ... the last time I ever seen him alive both of em was we was fishing... the very first one...we were in the boat and LInda just wouldn't sit still ...I remember he had to row us to the side and put her off...and I caught more fish than him... and then the last memory I have of him was I had gone to arkasas

LORNA#1

...it was the easter before this happened in Feb. , we were fishing and he told me he had too much work to do, and I caught that first fish and here he comes down the hill and starts fishing with me. and that was the last time that I seen him alive. ...

I'm real glad that I went down there... never thinking that it would be the last, when we were kids he was extremeely patient...

20/29 ...one time he tried to teach me how to swim and I didn't like this at all ...and I reached up and hit him in the jaw and he had that steel plate in his jaw, and I testified to that in Ark. , that's one of the things that they wanted to know about. so I knew about thisw plate that he had from WWI....the patience that he had with all the kids,...six kids would drive me crazy. He never seemed, the noise or racket..we'd ask him questions, but sometimes we wouldn't becasue we'd get too long of an answer. ...I would go to spend the night with other kids and I was always so happy to get home cause these other kids dads were always so ornery. and dad never hollered at us... when we did something wrong he would look at us and we would knew we did something wrong and that was worse than anything, just that look that he kept up.

END TAPE 01:22:27

LORNA#1/45

START TAPE @ 01/45/08

45/46 ...music is like an alive thing and when I hear him play it's like he's not dead...so it's kind of an alive thing... I was asked one time if I hated these people that killed him, if I would want them dead . I told them no, I don't for one, I don't hate them. They've made a horrible mistake that they'll live with everyday of their life and sometime, somewhere down the line they will realize this. I don't think that hhowever the attitude was ,,,I do want them to live with this everyday of their life. we have to, I would want them to, I wouldn't want to be them for anything. If anything I pity them , what they have done, it's a horrible thing , Dad would have never hurt anybody. It just wasn't in him... the one thing I kept thinking of while he was a fugitive. is, what he was going thru, I knew the personal agony he was going through, knowing those two men were dead. Knowing him, like I know him, that was an endless agony that he had been put in a position to do that ...one time I had talked to him... he was highly decorated in WWII and I couldn't comprehend him killing anybody, I knew that had to be a hard thing for him to do...

48/02 ...he told me, when it comes to a matter of self survival he said in order to save your own life you can take someone elses life to protect your own or somebody elses life, you can do it. But, he was not, I know it had to have been very hard for him to live with. those few months that he was alive after that happened.

LORNA#1/45

48/53 ...I was twelve years old, mainly just started with the income tax thing... then he did join different groups and I asked him about that one time.

(CUT W/CLARENCE SAYING GK JOINED JOHN BIRCH)

He would get in them and find out what they were all about and then he would always get back out, he was disappointed in them, they were like politicians, they present one thing and then he'd find out they're not what they appear to be either. I said why do you keep doing this? Why do you keep joining these different groups. And he said, because you can't find out anything standing on the outside looking in. He said you have to get invovled. He said , you have to check these things out and nobody's going to tell you anything unless you're part of it. And

49/57 ...actually, when all this happened he had not been a part of anything for years . He had joined different things... and at the end when I heard he was a big posse comitatus leader and all this, he was leader of that thing or anything... had not been for ten years, even affilaited for years.

51/40 I was about twelve and she was just born......it started with the income tax and it mainly stayed that way for probably five or six years...then he got to digging further and it got into other things and he went to prison for tax evasion..

52/20 ...I took it at that time like he had fought this thing, he lost, he's going to pay for it, and this will be over. this will be the end of it. and he'll realize that you cannot buck the govt. that's how I took it, like it's finally over...and it really was. and I 'll believe to this day that they picked him up for the reasons that they said, ...the day that they went out there to Medina. They did not go thru all that for a probation warrant that had been filed away...that is as childish of an answer as I've ever heard. I'll never believe that...for one thing from what I had check it out, from what I understand Robert Chesire from Bismarck contacted Marshall Muir. Marshal Muir is the head marshal, he should have contacted Robert Chesire. ...the warrant was in Fargo,

LORN3

53/45 ...they guy, I don't remember his name, the head over Marshal dept. in Wash. DC testified that they told them to put it away, that dad was not a threat to anyone. They had exhausted more manpower and money on this thing than it was worth and to file it away. that he was no threat. And it had been filed away. (INTERCUT W/ JACK SWAN'S RESPONSE TO "WHY WAS IT RE-ISSUED?")

Marshal Muir did not dig it out. Rob. Chesire called him. and that's when it got dug out ...

LORN3

54/34 ...the copy of the warrant for his probation was sent on Feb. 14, the day after it happened... it is ridiculous, it bothers me that they would think that people would be so naieve as to believe such a thing...that was not the reason, now the two men are dead. and I don't know that we'll ever know, what the real reason was. It was instigated from Rob. Chesire to Muir. It should have been the other way around.

55/49 ...what I actually think...I can't prove any of this , the first thing that puzzled me after this...my dad walked all around Carrington...he drove out to the farm everyday, which is aprx. 25 miles and back in 25 miles by himself...

LORN3

it puzzled me, why didn't they get him when he was alone ??? then I figured it out, they didn't want to get him while he was alone. see they knew if they went to arrest my dad , Scott and Yori would put up a resistance and then they could get them all.

(TIME CODE CHANGES FROM 01:56:37 to

o3:28:23)

LORN3

03:28/32 ...the day that they presented the evidence that Muir had shot the first shot and testified the gun that it came from I'll never forget the look on the muir family I felt so bad for em. they dind't want to beleive this. but yet it was solid evidence that it had to be his and the pistol grips were found with his bullet in it...that his shot had to be what triggered this whole thing that day,,,that maybe if he hadn't shot, but the look from their faces, pain, disbelief, rejection LORN3

...they didn't want to believe that he could have started this, that maybe the course of events could have been changed had that first shot not been fired. ...thru out this thing ...but, I couldn't help but feel sorry for them because I knew that this was something that they didn't want to believe, especially Mrs. Muir ...that she didn't want to believe that maybe the course of history could have been changed if that shot had not been fired.

03:30/21

END TAPE

LORNA#2/22

START TAPE @ #02:22:34

22/33 ...if there could be just one honest person out there that would come clean with what happened, this could be the domino effect, and then we could finally get to the truth of this...I keep hoping as they get older they've had time to think about this...they don't have so much to fear . I know why they're going this...I basically don't want to think people are dishonest , and I think that a lot of these people haven't come clean is out of fear. ...if just one would come clean, the rest would have to.

23/35 ...I don't really know if we'll ever get to the truth of Medina...I think the main characters are dead. I don't think we'll ever get to that truth, we might get some light shed on it.

24/33

I sat thru those trials and I can't say who killed him. but from sitting thru those trials and listening to those men I really feel like I know who killed him. But I can't say who it was because I can't prove it. From the testimony of who did what and when and how they were trying to cover this up. I really feel like I know who did kill him.

25/13

I feel like the reason they killed Sheriff Matthews was one of two things. Either, I believe it was because he wasn't going to go along with it. But, it could have been a bunch of trigger happy people that when he came around that corner, shot him...I've got pictures of his blood along the corner of the garage, he was shot around the corner of the garage and I've got the pictures of it. I've got the pictures to prove it was burnt and then fired upon. ...the heat from the inside of the house, then the pictures ...line goes here and then the holes are there ...

26/35

...I've got the pictures to prove it. I've got the pictures of Sheriff Matthews blood on the garage wall. I've got the autopsy report that shows he was shot so many times. It could have ben one or two things , he either wouldn't go along with them , so when he came out there was orders to kill him. Or, someone panicked and when they seen a body come around shot him.

27/11 No I know he didn't, I've got pictures of his blood splattered...I'm sure it's his blood. I don't know of anybody else that got shot out there ...enough to have splattered, it splattered, it got splattered. ...(CUT W/PROF GRAN AT GARAGE CORNER)

27/35 ...Jim Hall, ...that's who I think shot him.

27/57 ...Also the reason I know, I feel like Jim Hall shot him. another reason I think this is, I had an FBI man come talk to me, when this first happened. He told me that they had had orders that one FBI man and one US Marshal have to work together on thise case...he told me that the FBI did not want dad dead. He said, we don't want a martyr on our hands ... he said this is bad enough , we don't want a hero here. ...but, he said, I can't say the same thing for the marshals service. He said one of their own men got killed. They're looking at it a little different. (CUT W/GRAF) ...AND I feel like Jim Hall just barged right in there and killed him before Mr. Blasingame had a chance to, I don't think they let him in on it. That they were going to go in there and kill him. I don't think that Jim Hall let anybody in on it. , because I think it was within the marshal's service that they were going to have revenge. and if any of em was around when this come down to get him . And I felt like they did ...I don't think that Jim Blasingame, he probably went out there with the idea that he would kill him but, I don't think that he just thought ... I'm going to shoot him in the back or I'm going to shoot him in the back of the head. But, I don't think that the Marshals service thought the same way. I think that they wanted him dead no matter what. They had to shoot him in the back.

30/35 I don't feel like it happened that way, I think they just went in there. They didn't plan it out real well. ... I think prrobably would have liked to have been a big hero and captured him... Big John Wayne here. From what I understood and I don't know, he's dead ...I'll never know.

I think Jim Blasingame went out there with the idea that he was in charge and that things were going to go his way. And I think that Jim Hall wanted to make sure he was dead. Didn't get away again. and I mean the autopsy report has a hotdog in Dad's esophegus. Well, he was a good shot, but he never ate and shot at the same time. I know he wasn't sitting there eating a hotdog and shooting at the same time.

...his hotdog was stuck in his esophogus...he was shot in the back of the head. They just walked up to him and put the gun to the back of his head and shot him. He never knew what hit him.

I've got dad's autopsy report and part of Matthews and I also have picture of the body.

33/45 ...He didn't say anthing about he didn't have any feet either. We didn't know that until the NY Times reporter was down there in August and the dog brought up my dad's feet. he didn't bother to mention that either.

34/06 I wouldn't want to, but what leads me to believe that they did, was the only thing that was missing from the house was that butcher knife. ...

Everything else was there and the wades went thru the house with that grate...

34/45 I can show you the picture and I do believe that they chopped his hands and feet off and knocked his teeth out because I requested that when they send the body back and I wanted the teeth and I wanted them separate so I wouldn't have to look at his body ...but I wanted to look at those teeth, cause I knew I'd know dad's teeth...and anyway, when they brought the teeth back , those were not his teeth, there were more teeth then he had. those were big teeth, his were small teeth.

37/10 ..they didn't know if they wanted it to be him,,, if it was him, it'd be on the news what they done. ...on the other hand if it's somebody elese, they really messed up. if they killed the right person... I don't think they wanted that body identified.

37/53 ...I think it was a case of total panic out there, once they lost control, once dad was shot , Blasingame knew he wasn't in control anymore and I think things got totally out of hand. and I think there was poeple out there panicking, this one didn't know what that one was doing. I think it was total chaos. I think Jim Blasingame didn't run a very tight ship... I know they had no intentions of ever trying to call dad out .... he didn't even carry out a bullhorn, with a hostage type thing the first thing they do is try to call em out. He...that didn't even cross his mind to try to call him out. ...

39/39 ...the one thing that has always puzzled me wwas on CNN , was the night that this happened, I saw this on TV , they said how ironical it was that GK and Sheriff Matthews would take this final ride together. And they had two bodies in the back of this ambulance. ...Now I'm told that Sheriff Matthews was taken to the hospital and died at the hospital...I'll never forget that, there were two body bags...I said that must be dad over there.

42/11 ...but they did, they said GK and Gene Matthews will take theire final ride together...so what happened? How will we ever know?

END TAPE @ 02:44:00

LORNA#2/44

START TAPE @ 02:44:33

And I know there's someone that knows, why...the whole thing. ...

LORNA#2/44

45/20 ... the worse thing he ever said about anybody, was a dumb fool... when he lost his (tax) trial down in Midland, ...I asked him, doesn't that make you mad? He said, ohh, no, the dumbfool just thinks he's doing his job.

46/59 He told em he would never come after them, but if they ever came after him, then they better be prepared,,, he just wanted to be left alone ...yeah, he wasn't infringing on anyone.

47/28

this whole thing is nothing from beginning to end, it's not what it appears to be ...it's alie and a coverup and that's all it is and they had boys going out to do a man's job. I just feel like everthing they did they messed up and they wouldn't admit and so they had to coverup ...

48/40

I didn't want to stif it up again, it's always at the surface and once it comes up and sometimes as a family, we just want to let it rest in peace(BAD ,EDOA CPVERAGE)...it always comes out worse, he's made out to be a fool...just let him rest in peace. it's not going to get Yori out of prison...

the only hope is if it's covered right, maybe it won't happen to somebody else... if it's honest coverage, which we haven't had before...

You get defeated, you get knocked down so many times, why get up again...you can't find out the truth...why us.? Just a little bitty farmer...why did this happen, how did it happen.. it's somethint that 's not supposed to happen in this country... and after everything else that they did they can't even tell us the truth ...why was killing him not enough, we've got a right to know that

52/36

LANE ...I'll lock my self in the funny farm, if within three years, a terrible sick joke is going to be played on us by the rich evil,,, there is something beyond...ou can make yourself a real documentary...there's no connection until you look into it...you can see it, these people thrive on secrecy, they're getting blatant...55/24

03/00/15 GK'S CHARCOALED BODY PHOTO

02/56

these are the photos...they prove that (PICTURES OF PAINT AND BULLET HOLES. )

03/04/03 that proves that the house was burned and then they had their shootout, to make it look like there had been a shootout out there. when in fact they just burned and then open fired.

Blood spots on photos of garage. ...

END TAPE @ 03:04:00

LORNA#3/05

START TAPE @ 03:05:51

This picture right here, what's unique is look at the blisters here on the side , but not on the front of the oven door. ...so what I believe is if the kerosene had just been poured in the house the damage would have been even... I bel

06/32 ...what's unique here about this picture is if you look the refrigerator and the side of the stove is blistered, but the front door of the stove isn't blistered... I beleive that his body to recieve the damage that it did had to have been soaked, that was why the heat was more concentrated the length of his body...

08/10 AUTOPSY PICTURE OF GK ...

13/46 ...well, I don't know that it had anything to do with it, per say. I know that Linda was pretty close to daddy. They didn't always see eye to eye...it was just real bad times ...this happened with daddy, then her second husband left her, the girls were grown up ...I think she came to a place in her life where she thought nobody needed her... I think she thought about it for years...she had a hard time dealing with what had happened. ...I don't know... I think maybe it was more of a catylist to her hopeless despair. then maybe we'd like to admit, I don't know

16/00 LORNA READING THE RADIO POLICE TRANSCRIPT FROM ROADBLOCK...

LORNA#3/05 (LORN7)

22/13 ...this is what's upset me from the beginning on that book. It is as biased one way as some of the stuff that was written on dad's side... it's like two saints got together and how did such a terrible thing happen? This side is beyond causing any problems and making any mistakes and so is the other side. So how did such horrible mistakes happen if both sides were above doing anything wrong. ...How did such a catastrophe happen?

23/14 there was a young man who sat in the back row, he was always looking over at the Muirs making motions to them. then there was an older lady who slept thru most of the trial ...I was so upset, I thought here their lives are in the balance and she's sleeping. ...didn't the judge see this ...didn't the attny's see this, why didn't somebody do something about this... I don't know how she sleeps at night...

24/47 yea, that's a personal responsibility of each juror.

25/55 I just couldn't understand how thru this thing that they could actually get those boys for murder, when in fact they had a confession and dad couldn't confess to it in such minute details unless he done it. ...see the way he come around, when he shot em, how he shot em... he couldn't have confessed to this in such detail if he hadn't done it ...those boys did not murder anybody ...

26/51 ...they should be allowed when you have a confession to a murder, that should be allowed in there. because they were saying they didn't do it. Somebody else was saying they did do it. that dad was saying he did do it. the boys were saying that they didn't do it. ...to me that letter would have been evidence. ...

END LORNA ADKINS INTERVIEW