Len Martin
TAPE #07:13:40 14/45... when I came out of college, I taught school for twelve years...and then things started to happened...I got involved with single people...cause I was divorced... and I got to looking at taxes and noticed thatsingle person was paying more than a couple with two children... so thenI wrote a book called "The Alien World of the Single Adult"...15/46... and then I went to washington, foolishly thinking I could get thingsdone in two weeks... I started asking these congressmen questions... thethird time I would stop in to see them, they would say, "when are yougoing home?" I said, well I don't know, what's the use of going home,when we don't have a future... I got a job as a waiter 16/40 ...and peoplefrom all over the world came in there and I learned a lot... but five daysa week I was up in congress , mainly in the house of reps... because thereps are campainging constantly, the senators aren't worried as much... 17/30 ... they said, gee you sound alot like liberty lobby... I lookedem up and read about this stuff and the more I read the more it scared me...18/00 ...I asked, do you ever hire anybody... I started out writing speechesat a $150 per month, by the end of six months I was making $10,500. Iended up writing four or finve radio scripts a week... 19/11... well I don't exactly know how I met him...he was, he was alwaysin the community, you've always lived there, he was born seven miles away,went to small school seven miles away...he was four years older than I was...so... 19/38... the orchestra he used to play piano for used to play in thelocal dancehall... and thru that we became friends... I knew his wife muchbetter, we were in confirmation class together, her brother and I were onthe threshing crew together... MARTIN#07/13 20/13 ...it wasn't till about six months before the attack, I was teachingin a Christian school in the little town of Ashley, ND... and Scott Faul,one of the person's that's in prison now walked in and said, heh, I've gotsomebody I'd like you to meet, Gordon Kahl, I just about fell to the floor...itdidn't seem like the same Gordon Kahl , here was a man that was to me andto quite a few patriots quite a famous person, he was not widely known,otherwise they may not have tried to pull what they did.... 20/52... then I spent a lot of time together, we talked about the problems, ...Isaid , I'm well aware I lived with jews for forty years in washinton andthey were exposing to me from the inside what was going on in Israel andin America...he saz yep, and the Masons. I looked at him and said, theMasons? and after he pointed out a few things, things started to fall intoplace, heh, this makes sense, and then I started checking, from that, andhe taught me a lot, before the attack, times we were together, and evidentlyhe was a pretty good teacher and the things I learned after that... becausea person that has read the book Portrait of a Bastard came out he said,I was a 33rddegree Mason till I found out what it was all about....he saidif I was to write about Masonry, I would write about it word for word theway you did...sooo 22/00... but, his son Yori has pointed out, and this gets back to what GordonKahl told me, the very first day we got together...Yori says yes, the jewsare the root of the problem but they're not the danger right now, ...hesays, it's the masons, for this reason, many, many people across americarealize the problem of the jews, ...when I say the jews and masons, GordonKahl was very careful to point out the high degree of masons and the elitejews, the big shots...the point is many people do know...22/50... the problemsthat the jews are creating, but they do not know the part the masons areplaying...this is what makes it so dangerous...if you don't know the enemy...23/03... 23/10... it was just about six months before, when he got back to ND...solong, it just seemed like another life, when we were back there in Sykeston,it doesn't seem real what happened back then, course those were the toughtimes, back during the dirty thirties...during the depresssion, we didn'thave the slightest idea what was going on, but still we had good times,we survived, our parents helped each other...you don't have quite that friendlinessthat you have now, the people you have in the metropolitan areas... 24/18... it's a different world we're living in now... now , it's likeboht of us have gotten on the same team , Gordon had learned a lot moreand a lot faster than I did, earlier... 25/20 well, I don't know how far back, but when he was an instructor,before he was discharged, ...well, it happened by golly back in Italy...they would unload cargo from a ship and they would load Jews on the ship...25/42...and he asked some of the jews that were in his company, where were theygoing, ...of course they could all talk yiddish,... he said they're goingto America, they 're just loading on the ship going to america...he said,well they're escaping from Hitler... 26/20... then when he got bqack to the US, one of the officers who wasunder him, used to come in every morning, must boiling....and he had thewashington post and he showed gordon, the jews who had come to america fromeurope... they had the names and then they changed their names to millerand like that and they got instant citizenship...27/00... so uh, at least by that time, things were starting to stir in Gordon'smind, then he, one you get your toe wet, one thing leads to another...thenmost of us ...who are causing the problems, not what, but who are causingthe problems...27/33...and uh, then being a very independent person andvery analytical... he wouldn't go in for the farm programs... he was onone and then he got out of it and paid off the farm...28/04MARTIN#07/1328/18... okay, this is very interesting,... after Gordon and I got together,things started to jell... there were a few patriots here and there, we gottogether at a meeting, gordon wasn't back yet...we had 70 people, whichis a pretty good number... our second meeting held at Bismark we had 90people...heh, all of a sudden people are starting to get together, startingto get organnized...course our enemy, they don't want that, people gettingtogether and learning some facts...Gordon was at that meeting... ...and every meeting after that...29/24...then we started planning,most of the work...MARTIN#07/13they said gordon was a tax rebel... at then and now, the emphasis ofwhat we were trying to do was to stop the farm foreclosures... six meetingwere planned... the first meeting was set up at Wishok, ND...it was setfor the 20th of february, and how could they stop this organizing, aha,one of the people, Gordon Kahl, had a misdeamenor... of course later, wefound out the warrant that they had was faulty...but, that's what they hadbased it on... so this was just too ironic that this happened one week afterthe first meeting was scheduled...30/53... (CUT W/GRAF TALKING ABOUT MEETINGS)MARTIN#07/13 ...we had people coming in to tell the farmers every avenue they couldpursue to save their farms, well this was going to cause quite a problemfor the money lenders...we heard later that 200 hog-raisers were comingto the first meeting... you can imagine, you get this many people aroused,this would have been tough for the enemy forces to cope with.... END TAPE O7:31:42 LEN MARTIN INTERVIEW: TAPE #08/00 1/15... it was my suspicion that they didn't want this meeting to takeplace... 1/37... they tried to tell the public, the news media was saying , that,deputy sheriff noticed Gordon at the meeting and so he alerted the US Marshals,well, this is a bunch of baloney that that was what precipitated the wholething, because two, the , that deputy marshal and the police of chief ofmedina had been, admitted they had been kind of watching Gordon when hecame to the meetings that were held in medina, monthly...and in fact, thechief of police of medina had been to at least one meeting, maybe two andhe was at the meeting at Ashley, one week prior to the attack...2/37... ...now he and the deputy, all of a sudden noticed that GK's car wasin town...the meeting was set up the following week in medina, this waspublic knowledge... the reason that precipitated the attack, was a big fatlie to start with....but the news media portrayed this,... they said thathe had violated parole...3/36... ...well there's some mitigating circumstances there, GK could have gottenout of prison after one month if he would have done one two three four,he said, un, uh, when I walk out of here I'm going to be free man, so heserved eight months which in the federal prison system is a year...4/04... ...so he came home, all of a sudden a parole officer shows up... un,uh, when he walked out, he was a free man, at least that was his understanding(CUT W/BROOM POINTING TO GK's signature on prob paper)...so they said they had a warrant from texas... and I brought this upwith Bud warren, who admitted, I've learned a lot, since I got invovledwith this, I asked Bud Warren, he said, there are a few marshals left inamerica, but they are getting fewer and fewer right alone, the FBI isn'tas bad, but it's getting that way... and ...05/00 ...he felt that warrant was lawful and I pointed out, heh, ...one statewill issue it and ask the officials of another state, he said this is federal, after he realized that each state is a nation in itself, he said, I cansee it isn't valid now... ...5/30...but you see when the news media tells the public and that'sall they hear, they're going to believe that... (CUT W/ MEDIA COVERAGE) 5/48 ...I hadn't met Bud until sometime after the trial was over... Iwent to washington... snooped around, talked with aides, they knew aboutthis, but , they're edgy about talking about it... one , how come you havesuch a deep interest in this... his experience had taught him to be prettyleary of anybody and everybody...He said I didn't trust you, but I didn'tdistrust you either... when bud lived he had quite an impact ... 8/05... it's ironic the night before I'd been at David and Joni Broerersand they said, why don't you stay and spend the night and ride up with ustomorrow, but for some reason i felt I had to go back and do some schoolwork ,,, ...otherwise I would have been in the car with them and I probablywould have been in prison too... 8/48... 8/50...anyway, at the meeting, there were very few people there, thiswas very strange, so many had been to the meeting the week before, theoddest thing was the chief of police wasn't there... David Broer had askedhim earlier in the week if he was going to be there and he said, yeah, I'llbe there, but he wasn't at the meeting... 9/33... ...when the meeting was over someone, I'm not sure who, noticed a pickupdown the street and one person with binoculars was watching the meeting...Dave Broer thought this was kind of funny and he said, I'm going to callthe chief of police and he talked with him for a while... 10/08... (CUT W/GRAF TALKING ABOUT THE TELE. CONVERSATION) ... ...then they hung up and he called back again, it was about an APB onScott Faul's car... Scott's car wasn't there and the whole thing seemedpretty fishy... but the oddest part of the whole thing was the chief ofpolice wasn't at the meeting... 10/44... Yorie says, they might be after you dad...he says, nahh, Yori,we've been thru this so many other times, it's just another false alarm...they weren't worried, cause,....Gordon was off parole, now it's important,this point right here is very, very important...11/11... ...when the one marshal was on the stand, wigglesworth, the one thatran from the site, he was asked by the defense attny., if the parole periodends, does the warrant die. and well then, well there would have been nowarrant, because the parole period had ended the previous June, I guessit was.. the prosecuting attny. objected...and Benson didn't let him answer...that would have killed the whole case right there...12/04... ...they had Bud Warren on the stand and they asked him the same thing,I object, I object, they had a conference, up around the judge and judgebenson said, you don't have to answer that... now you can just about besure, ...well, one of the defense counsel asked... oh I've got to jump back... 12/46... this is very important, the point about...the parole, becauseat the trial, one on the marshals, wigglesworth, one of the four that attackedGordon out there in the group. ON the stand was asked by the defense attny.,if the parole period ends, does the warrant die. And the marshal Wigglesworthsaid , well, noo, a court has to give an order...so the defense atty sayswell is it a rule, where did you get this... I object, Benson sustained... 13/40 ... and then when Bud Warren took the stand, the marshal thatdidn't go out there, the same question was asked of him. I object, Bensonsustained. So, you can be sure if such a rule that the warrant was stillalive, that the prosecutors would have brought this out. Cause this wouldhave strengthened their case. but if they didn't have it, it would haveblown the case open... Anybody can get this right out of the court transcipt... 15/03 ... they would say, well, what's happening? we're not gettinganything in the news. so we started publishing... but the days I didn'tgo to the trial...I got a blow by blow account... 15/50... (DEFINITION OF A PATRIOT) ...well, I would say a patriot puts the interest of america first andfollows the constitution... a lot of people would say the constitution isoutdated but if they check they'll find out the problems are created fromdeviating from it... times change, yes, but principals do not change...16/15... ...a patriot would be someone who puts the interst of america first... 16/41 ...blowing their own horn, doing their own thing...one organization...somebodygets a gimmick...if you really want to make some money make religious organization...soare considered destroyers... some say, lets cooperate, you join me... my ...17/50... my writing style seems to be effective...where the averageperson can read it... I keep the books short enough, so that people sayheh, it won't take long to read that... we realize we're not god... if it'ssomething that's good we help them... we've been accepted by almost allof them... 18/38 ... but there is a move towards cooperating but it's too slow...consequently the odds of stopping the enemy aren't great...although thereare some things happening... although the enemy is moving ahead too... 20/02 ... they don't condone it. but, there are many that say thatthe only way that the enemy is going to be stopped is thru a certain amountof bloodshed...they hope to keep it to a minimum, ...(CUT W/OLD DOC IN ARK.) but and many of the people, I don't have to agree with that, but, maybewith the threat that if you don't stop there's going to have to be somekilling, that the threat might stop them from their aggressive actions...20/37... the thing is I don't even own a gun...I would have to admit that theremay be a time where that is absolutely necessary...20/50... 21/12 I visited Gordon's home many times and Gordon had a couple threeguns...Yori was a gun fancier, antiques... as far as an arsenal... a schoolboard member where I teach had more guns in his basement that Gordon did...thisis just some more of... MART221/45...people will believe anything if you just tell em one side ofthe story and that's what the news media was doing... 21/52...(CUT W/GUNS & NEWS MEDIA COVERAGE)MART2 22/04 .... first there was tax protestor... if you only tell one sideof the story people are going to believe it...and of course, not knowingthe facts about income tax, pe0ple are going to say that's terrible... andof course there's the posse Comitatus and they make that sound like a badorganization... 22/32... Now when I was interviewed over KFYR here after Jim Corcoran was interviewed,I pointed out that if Jim C. was hororable in his intentions about the bookhe could have told the truth about the Posse Comitatus ...are all men andwomen are members of the posse comitatus who can be called to serve by thecounty sheriff... law school article pointed out that congress passed andcongress passed the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 ...24/14...it was printed in the ND Law Review ...Corcoran was eitherignorant or lying ...anybody that uses the posse is either ignorant or hasevil intent... ...25/23 ... my thoughts about Bitter Harvest...they say he was teachingback East... I think he was commissioned to do that...because GK was dyingout here... we're happy that he wrote that because it's so full of lies... 27/45 ... the thought was that when Yori brought up they might be afterhim... Yori said, why take any questions... the thought was to get him home...why would the marshals come out on a Sunday for a lousy misdemeanor? Maybeit was some of the local boys trying to make a name for themselves... firstof all Yori said, heh, dad let's change jackets...Yori put on his dad's...so I gave him my brown stockingcap... Gordon looked at me and shook handsand never said a word... he got in the car...I followed them West, the twocars went north and I went on 17 miles south and I waited for Dave Broerto come back...from taking Gordon home... and when he got back in, he toldhis daughters to go upstairs and he said six of em are dead. Any of ours,no, but Yori was shot up pretty bad... this is very interesting, they werecharged with conspiracy to attack the marshals. And I was there, why wasn'tI supoened? Why wasn't I charged? 29/59... ...I gave Gordon my cap, why didn't they charge me? I think they figured,and I brought this out...that maybe I wouldn't have hired a lawyer...30/12... ...Maybe ...I'd spent six years in washinton, maybe I would have upsetthe apple cart. They were just interested in getting a conviction...theyhad the attitude, let's forget about everything, two marshals are dead andsomebodies got to pay for it... and then two, I've pulled a couple of publicitystunts, so I'm pretty well known in ND... I went to Washngton by horse andbicycle and I walked around with a monkey on my shoulder, Get this monkeyoff my back, the IRS...I hit the Paul Harvey Program...then I have a brotherwho's well known and liked, educator in ND...with his contacts, with myfacing prison,... a little too risky...why didn't they charge me with conspiracy...I had more reason than Mrs. Kahl...31/20... END TAPE LEN MARTIN INTERVIEW: MARTIN#10 2/09...well, the GK trial for people who understand the way juries aresupposed to operate and the way the jury operated in the trial of the medinavictims, the people would have to say that this was a miscarriage of justice... ...2/37...why does Judge Paul Benseon or any judge wear a black robe? The president doesn't have a special gown...a senator or a politician doens'thave a special gown to carry out his duties...why does a judge or judgebenson, what is the significance of this...2/57... ...it is one jewish, honorable jewish, lawyer and he was a mason, aftertwo days I spent with him, he said the black robe is the symbol of satan...3/17... ...he said if you ever tell anybody I said it, I'll deny it...but hesaid that is the way it is,...so here is judge benson running the trialin a satanic manner following , it's legal but it's not lawful...and there'sa lot of difference,....legal is what lawyers make it and lawful is underour consitution...now there is a move...and more and more people are seeingthat this is the only way to stop it...a lot of people say oh,...3/48... ...if you do this you can stop the IRS, if you do this you can win incourt ...there have been a few vitories, but by in large they lose...andwhterher it's a farm case or IRS or whatever, the only reason they loseis because of manipulation by the judge...juries have merely become tools...4/19... ...they are uninformed. I have masters degree from college and I cameout an uneducated idiot, we have none of this...no knowledge of the thingslike this...so there's quite a move now , more people are realizing thatthe only that people are going to get justice is a return to the way justicewas when our country was founded... ...4/43...and points to be made in this and we have talked to a lotof people and they say, heh, that makes a lot of sense... ...4/52...and here are the key points, forst of all in any jury trial,the judge is nothing more than just a chairman...the jury is the judge...and,these are the points that would be necessary to return justice to the peoplein a court case. The jury is picked by lottery in full view of the public,because all trials are to be public....and what is more important to a trialthan the picking of the jury...5/36... ...now in the GK case, there wasn't one juror in the northern part ofthe state, not one person was picked from the northern third of the state,they were all picked from the southern two thirds...there wasn't one fromthe big city of Grand Forks or the medium size city of Devils Lake. Butthere are two jurors from the little town of Hope. quite a coincidence.there were two from aquitas? which is about 1200 people which is still quitea small city...6/23... ...Hankinsen, ND, two jurors from that city and it's ironic that Hankinsenis also the hometown of prosecuting attny. Lynn Crooks....it's also thehometown of one of the lady marshals based in Fargo...6/44... ...from that at least you would suspect that the jury was stacked...afterthe jury has been selected, the jury must be told that they have the rightto judge the law as well as the fact, and there's supreme court decisionsright down the line as recent as 1972 that say the jury has the right tojudge the law as well as the facts...7/14... ...Bensen in his 70 page instructions told the jury, they would determinethe facts according to the law as he determined it...7/24...(CUT W/COURT DOCUMENTS) ...and it is brought out, various people have mentioned that their friendswere on the jury and they were told, that they felt the fellows was innocent,but they felt that they were obligated to follow the judges instructions...7/45...(CUT W/JUROR COMMENTS) ...the jury is the judge, not judge benson, he is supposed to just bethe chairman...okay this is the second point that is necessary to returnjusitice to the people, third...8/02... ...the trial, if either party requests, all proceedings must be recordedon a court provided audio machine and if either party request they can bringin their own tape recorders, at the end of each day the tapes have to beexchanged before either of them leave the court, because it's been pointedout, if the court reporter hits 90 to 95% they figure this is pretty goodreporting...there is a lot of distorting of information...this would eliminatethat...and then two the defendent has the right to counsel of choice...8/59... ...that counsel can come from the bar assoc. or the general public,whichever he feels will best serve his needs...says right in the constitutionhe has the right to cousel of choice... if they'd have meant it to be alawyer, they'd have written it in there as so...9/17... ...and then two, anyone who has had much experience in court, can determine,that, especially, either the lending institutions, large corps. or the govt.invovled, 98 to 99% of the time they lose...9/41... ...about 98% of those who hire lawyers are sold out by lawyers...9/48...(CUT TO JOAN BADRAPPING LAWYERS) ...they're afraid of losing their licenses to practise, there's where,there are many people who have studied the law who would do a better jobof representing that person...so it's a matter of choice...10/03... ...you don't have to have a lawyer...alright, there's a fourth one here... ...10/10...all lines of questioning and all evidence must be allowedand this it says in the constitution, that the jury, the defendent has theright to present to the jury...in the Kahl case, Benson, time after time,supported, when the defense wanted to bring up certain points, the prosecutorswould object and BEnson would back them up...so there were important linesof questioning that were not allowed. For instance...10/51... ...one of the marshals, was caught lying on the stand, the defense attnywanted to put this newspaper article that showed this into the evidence,...theprosecutors objected, Benson backed them up...11/13... ...right down the line, so, uh, if, this would have been in effect,they would have had no chance in the world of convicting those two boys.As it was, the one point did it....where the jurors said, we felt the fellowswere innocent, not all of them, but some of them said that, ...we felt thefellows were innocent but we felt obligated to follow Judge Benson's instructions...11/43... ...and the thing is, it's not just affecting the boys in prison, thesame way with farm foreclosures. right down the line, if you're facing court,you're facing a person wearing the symbol of Satan and whether he's a masonor not, he's obligated to follow that line...12/04... ...and, uh, this was told to me, very important, it was told to me bya retired judge not far from fargo, it involves the actions of a subversivejudge over there, most of them are,...whether intentionally or not, they'restill subverting our country...well this retired judge...12/36...\ ...I'd asked him, one time, what is the basis of common, he said that'swhat our country was founded on, until the judge/lawyer gang screwed itall up...12/48... ...well, then I was confronting one judge he said, there's no doubtthat most of the laws that judges enforce are unconstitutinoal, but if theydidn't do it, they'd be out without a job...now is that a good excuse forthem to sell out their country? But that's what happened right here. Hewas willing to go along selling out his country, which is Benson I'm talkingabout, just for the prestige and there is another thing that GK broughtout...all his studies showed that no...13/34... ...mason can get above the third degree unless they have something badto blackmail him on... what do they have on Benson to blackmail him thathe would do such a terrible thing...13/47... ...14/00...the information, Benson of course, Lynn Crooks mason, wearinghis ring. And Fisher is jewish...most of those would fall under the masonicclass. The clerk of the court I understand was jewish...the uh, court reporterI think was jewish. And then the clerk of the court was an Eastern Star,a woman...the defense attnys were either masons and if they weren't sure,then their partners were masons, which would involve them, so the wholecourt was masonic and the boys being tried there were Christians...14/55... ...you're supposed to be tried by a jury of your peers, but, they'reinfluenced by this whole masonic setup...there'd be no justice...now thereis one thing that is very imperitive and this is having a tremendous effecton the whole US. and that's the matter of jurisdiction...15/20... ...according to the constitution, the federal govt. has jurisdictionover the ten square miles of the District of Columbia. the territories andany land that is officially sold or seeded to the fed. govt. by the statelegislature. This land north of medina where the attack took place is notin fed. hands, okay, but then when it comes to the trial, they say wellit involved federal officials. And I've cited the court case, I think it'sin the Attack On GK in Medina, that it isn't who is involved, but it's wherethe act takes place...16/10... ...I was quite lengthy on this, a lawyer, Larry Beecrafter cited caseafter case on why it was decided the way it was, was it the fed govt. orwas it the state... ...17/03...yes, a lot of it is specualtion... MARTIN#10...17/14...Bud Warren testified on the stand that Marshal Muir had gottena telephone call, a wire and a letter from the headquarters, of the US Marshalsin Washinton, that to leave GK alone, to spend no more time and money onsuch a minor case...so why did Muir do it?... 17/38...(CUT W/ COURT TRANSCRIPTS & BUD'S LETTER) ...I guess, you would say his ego or whatever, well he had a lot ofego and in a lot of ways he wasn't too nice of a guy, but, there are peoplethat I know , that the thurday before the attack had met Muir in a restaurant,said, Hiya Bud, how you doing? Oh okay I guess, I'll sure be glad, I'vegot two more years and I'll retire. Something had to be worrying that man...18/10... ...he had to have orders from higher up for him to go out there likethat...there are various things that have been pointed out , maybe they'recorrect, maybe they're not. But I'm pretty careful of what I write, so I'mnot going to say what they are. And then there are a lot of things thatif I mention them would blow the lid on some possible future investigation...18/40...(CUT W/ MCLAMB'S MYSTERIOUS STUFF AND EARL JONES) ...18/45...oh, that's what I'm talking about, the GK bit, what tookplace before the trial, before the shooting, the, what transpired afterthat, all the way thru the trial and even since... ...19/06...oh, yes, we did a video down there in arizona, Jack is aknowledgable person... ...19/18...it all boils down to, again, why were they out there? Whydid they break every rule and experience to go out there like they did?...there had to be, it appears that they were intentionally setting up aviolent confrontation...19/41...(CUT W/VICTOR SAYING, "HEARD THEY'D BEEN DRINKING GOING OUT ON APICNIC, ...WELL THEY GOT A PICNIC) ...19/45...because they could have taken Gordon any time. and on thestand, this marshal wigglesworth was confronted by one of the defense attnys.,isn't it true that in a , especially in a misdemeanor like this, that ifthere is a confrontation and talk going on, that you are to withdraw... ...I'm almost sure that's another case where they objected... ...20/38...all right, to start off with,...there was only one personthat shot, who was shot with a pistol. This was in the fargo forum, broughtout in court. That It was Marshal Muir with the five shots that he had taken,that was the only pistol that was shot. And there was a pistol shot, bulletembedded in yori's gun that showed up at the end of the trial. Now if itwas a highpowered rifle it would have simply shattered that thing. It wasjust embedded there, which virtually proves that it was a pistol and theonly person shot was Muirs' so he had to fire the first shot. ...21/35... ...why didn't they, Judge Benson, allow all of the attorneys to question,to bring out points, or question people about this. Benson wouldn't allowit...21/52... ...because it would have proved that Muir fired the first shot and everythingafter that that happened, was in self defense...there's a marine from carringtonND, a rifle and gun expert that testified on the stand, he said the firstshot was a pistol...22/20...(CUT W/ LANENGA) ...shot, it was very easy to tell the difference between the two...andthen too, four people that were in the trailer house just a short distanceaway, all of them testified that the first shot came from the south. Oneof them says the south or the southeast. So we did a little experiment.We got a trailer just about that same size and one fellow, with a mini-14,the same pistol that Yori had, and a there were three of us, it was thanksgivingand I couldn't get too many of us, but there was two beside myself in thetrailer. Now I made out the pattern, where the shots were going to comefrom , and I couldn't be sure where they're coming from and the other twowere only right three times and we all were listening carefully for theshot...That first shot those people in the trailer would not have been listeningcarefully...23/26... ...and the first shot that we were at, I wasn't sure where it came from,the other two, one said it came from the NW and one said it came from theW, the shot actually came from the East...23/43... ...so, it , you would suspect that their testimony was faulty, aboutwhere that first shot came from ... ...oh I think they all were, I mean they had all the time in the worldto build a case, You had the people who could have done something, theywere locked behind doors and harrassed...what happened to these boys andI've got it in The Attack on GK in Medina, they set out to frame them andharrass, did all types of harrassment to hamper any defense...24/28... ... ...24/43...well, number one, he had been under sedation,...(CUT W/ PERLEBERG) ... number two, I don't care what govt. officials it is, I would suspecttheir word... Because heh, they want to put food on the table so they'regoing to go along with the govt. They're under that pressure. If you don'ttestify to this, you 're not going to get a grant, you're not going to dothis, they can use tremendous pressure against a person and the only defenseyou have against that type of thing is a jury. A jury not under the thumbof people like Benson...25/25... ...25/34...well it's in both of them, ...this last one is about thecourt case (BENSON POTRAIT OF A BASTARD) , and about the kingpin, the maincharacter in it, Judge Paul Benson, and I didn't pick that name to be dirty,actually the word isn't dirt, it's in the bible many, quite often... ...26/02...I had a dream, I woke up after about an hours sleep and Inever had such a funny feeling in my life...why I would dream about it,I could see picture just as plain as can be, JUDGE PAUL BENSON, PORTRAITOF A BASTARD. And I says, heh, it's got to be, with god telling me thatI must write it, what is it? I never had such a funny feeling over my wholebody. So I went down to the doughnut shop and laid out the whole frame work...andI thought I'm not going to write that whole book here in Nebraska, at leastnot a little bit of it, I've got to do it in ND because he was supposedto be tried where the crime was committed, if I committed a crime, for writingthis story, I want it to take place in ND where people can observe this...26/46... ...but, I'm not too concerned , becasue there's nothing in there that'sfalse...even the part about the masons. I was real happy, evidently GK dida good job of instructing me, 33rd degree mason says, I'd write it wordfor word just the way you did. And everything else people can check, mostof it is right out of the trial...all they'd gotta do is check it...27/13... ...27/26...well, unfortuanately, his wife, is quite a story, she lostcontrol of the whole thing, she was a star, calls were coming in from allover the US, and when I went to move to Moorhead, why all the calls werecoming in there. I was putting out the court update for em, and she wasreally enjoying the limelight, but she wasn't really getting the attention.Mrs. kahl would be the one that people would go over and talk to. If youwere to ask, now Dave Broer is a swell guy, patriotic as you can be...atleast from what I know...if you were to mention dave broer hardly anyonein ND would recognize the name, if you were to mention GK , okay...28/33... ...that would be recognizable, people would stand up and take notice,so the fact that Mrs. kahl was getting the attention, this is understandableand this is where you build from, you build from there...so this is ...ithas caused a lot of problems, believed her...so, but she's out completelynow, she's divorced and married someone else...29/09... .... ...29/20...well, I think that when gordon was becoming very active intrying to preserve a decent country for his kids to live in and for everyoneelse, she was being a dutiful wife, she wasn't involved, she would justas soon that he didn't do this, but being a dutiful wife she stuck rightwith him...and after this happen, I've heard her say many times, Gordonwas right, everything gordon said is right...29/55...(CUT WITH OTHERS SAYING "EVERYTHING GK SAID IS COMING TRUE) ...if people across america, especially in ND could see the enemy forcesthe way Mrs. Kahl has seen them, there'd be a revolution before morning....they'dhang every judge in the state...and most lawyers...30/15... ...now many many lawyers do not like what's going on, but if they wantto put food on the table they go along with it, otherwise they lose theirlicense...30/29... ...END TAPE @ #10:31:18
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A timeline of the life of Gordon Kahl, from early childhood interests, to his marriage to Joan Kahl, his decorated military experience,
his outspoken tax protest, the Medina shootout, and his unusual death in Arkansas in 1983.
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VARIETY / Indie documaker Jeffrey F. Jackson sticks it to the IRS and the Feds in "Death & Taxes," a hard-hitting reinvestigation of the 1983 Gordon Kahl case, about which questions still linger. Jackson's unfazed, investigative reporting-style approach and inventive handling of familiar material make this a controversial item for fests and progressive webs. Non-U.S. viewers will also get a charge out of its conspiracy theme. read more
CHRONICLES MAGAZINE / Gordon Kahl was a simple farmer who became famous for not filing income tax returns. Imprisoned and hounded by IRS agents who never did prove he owed any amount of money, Kahl and his son were involved in a shootout with police. The son is still serving a prison sentence, but the father was surrounded and shot in Arkansas by police officers who mutilated and burned his body. read more
GUNS & AMMO / A new video documentary, Death & Taxes, details a case of government murderously out of control that was briefly mentioned in the October 1994 Guns & Ammo article "The Ugly Truth About Gun Control." Death & Taxes is the story of Gordon Kahl, a North Dakota farmer and decorated World War II veteran, and his apparent death at the hands of federal agents. read more
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Now Available!This set of 6 DVD's comprises over 13 hours of uncut footage, including a 2+ hour prison interview with Yorie Kahl, and candid interviews with wife Joan Kahl. In this rich stockpile of research, you'll find many more threads than could reasonably be pursued in the final feature.
The Death & Taxes Miniseries DVD Set Includes...
01: Gordon Kahl Meets With Head North Dakota U.S. Marshal Bud Warren (60 min)
02: The Beginning: Gordon Kahl's military experience and views on a variety of subjects (93 min)
03: Gordon's Texas Tax Trial (90 min)
04: Medina Shootout (60 min)
05: Gordon Kahl Was...: A montage of over 25 people describing who Gordon Kahl was in their eyes. (50 min)
06: Mysterious Death In Arkansas (90 min)
07: Media Circus: Chronological portrayal of Gordon Kahl in the media (70 min)
08: Yorie Kahl Prison Interview (150 min)
09: Joan Kahl Uncut Interviews (120 min)
A little-known fact regarding Death & Taxes is the surprising connection to Timothy McVeigh and the ATF / Oklahoma City Bombing. Here's a clip of Jackson sharing the story during a director's commentary on his film Postal Worker.
The story of Gordon Kahl so captured the attention of mainstream America that it was turned into a highly-rated made-for-television movie titled
In The Line of Duty - Manhunt In The Dakotas.
DEATH & TAXES is the story of Gordon Kahl, a North Dakota farmer who became America's "most-wanted" fugitive. How had a WWII war hero become the target of one of the largest manhunts in FBI history?
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The badly burned remains of Gordon Kahl, with an island of skin that shows he was in a prone position at the time of the fire.
Was Kahl a racist, gun-toting fanatic? Or a victim of an IRS policy of harassing vocal tax protestors into silence to keep the rest of us intimidated? Did Bill Clinton conspire to cover-up the torture and execution of Gordon Kahl in Arkansas? Did federal agents mutilate and burn the body to cover-up the murder of the wrong man?
DEATH & TAXES follows the trail of Gordon Kahl as his body is exhumed for a new autopsy. Building on newsreel clips covering two fiery shootouts and hundreds of interviews -- with IRS agents and federal prosecutors as well as Kahl's family and supporters -- D&T explores the myths and controversies surrounding a man who dared to challenge the federal income tax system. Some revile Kahl as a cop killer. Others revere him as an American patriot. Which was he?
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