Victor Seil   VICTOR#20/15   ...15/20...I'm Victor Seil. My sister is Joan Kahl...   ...15/42...well, he was a real nice person. ...highly intellegent. and I got along real good with him.   ...yeah, always did... ...16/15...no, uh, uh, ...I knew of him...   ...16/40...well I knew he liked to hunt and he was a real good mechanic...he could fix anykind of an engine...   ...17/30...he didn't much about it to me either...(tx. texas trial)   ...17/45...well, that's when the IRS got after him, you know, that was in '83...the same year this happened... this shootout in Medina and then the IRS was gong to foreclose on their land and then I took care of it for her...18/16... ...18/20... it was uh around $37,000...it was right in there...   ...18/38...yeah, ...but uh, the thing I couldn't understand , it started out with $7,000...until that year was up, it went up to $37,000 that quick... ...to sell the land, take the land...it was 400 acres...well at that time it was worth a lot of money...probably $500/acre...   ...19/31...no , this was after, (medina)...oh yes,...   ...19/45...not to a great extent, no...   ...20/17...not really,...this was before? ...   ...20/34...well they uh, as far as i know, they never went back with their personal real estate taxes...I think they always kept them up, I mean real estate...that's when the IRS got into it...I think that their RE taxes were paid... up to date, I'm sure of that...21/14... ...that's the judgement the IRS had against the land... ...21/20...yea, I guess so... ...21/28...that I couldn't say for sure, but I think they went back to the early seventies, I think...clear back to there...well that's what they come up with these figures...that's something I still don't understand either...how it jumped from seven to thirty seven, just so quick, reallly, no explanation, she couldn't get nothing out of them......22/04... CUT W/WIDICKERS TAX STATEMENT) ...and that's what she had to settle for was 37... ... ...22/28...I don't think so...   ...22/39... I was home in bed, I had the radio...I thought, oh, oh, kind of expected something like that, but not really either though. I know one thing, he said they'd never get him...22/58... ... ...23/07...no, he thought it was pretty corrupt...   ...23/24...there wasn't much I could do about it...then I got in touch with Joan the next day....no it wasn't the next day it was about...three days I think...they locked her up right away ...and then I gound out that she needed bail money to get released so I come up with that...23/50... ...fifty thousand...no, I ah, a banker was pretty good to me, it wasn't too hard to get, no...   ...24/22... no I was there one day, what they cxall that? the preliminary... ...24/45...well, I don't know what to say...under the circumstances, I don't know, he tried to protect himself and he fired back, that's all...   ...25/18...oh, I'm about six years older...   ...25/35...well they weren't around that much,,, we used to visit when they'd come back... 25/50,...yeah, once in a while...he did real good knocking Japs off...told me one day he got nine of em. He never got credit for it. And I know that the way he could shoot, he got em too. ...that's uh, bout the only time he talked, and also that day he said a plane came at him with american markings on it and the guy missed...gordon thought, well, he just made a mistake you know...but he says I kept an eye on him and sure enough he circles and comes back again...but he says, that time I didn't miss...26/43...(laughs) ...he explained it to me. He said that's guys face was surprised when his bullets hit him. He was that close...   ...27/02...ohh, he did a lot fighting...he did a job I'll tell you...really, he got wounded, schrapnel in his jaw and in his hip and two months later he was back shooting again, he just loved to shoot you know...27/35...   27/38...oh yeah, that's all he did in his spare time...could he shoot. He could knock off a prairie chicken with a 22. ... CUT W/ DELORES SAYING HE SNUCK OFF TO HUNT & YORIE ...27/48...YES, SOME SHOOTING... ... ...28/07...I don't think so...uh, uh, no...it didn't seem to bother him... ...28/20...welll, he found out a few things about the corruption that was going on. you know...that's about all I'd say that differed... a little bit...like well I don't know...how things were just dispersed in the service quartermaster stuff, people were getting away with things... ...29/05...yeah, as far as I'm concerned he was a pretty good guy, he and I got along...   ...29/23...well, the book describes it pretty good,...THERE WAS A MAN...as far as i know that's what happened...according to Joan...   ...29/48...yea, yea, it's just about, he must have took it out of that other book it looks to me. pretty much all the same... ...welll END TAPE @20:30/14... VICTOR SEIL#21   1/37...nothing really, I just, couldn't really figure it out, what it really was...I guess you go way back, they had something like that years ago in this country...but according to Gordon, oh I never studied on that...but the sheriff is supposed to have more power than anybody...I didn't quite understand that... ... ...2/13...ummm, not that, but he asked me to go to a meeting down there once, I went to a meeting... ...ha, the way things are going in this country, bad you know, the farmers especially and uh...well I don't know... ...not really there wasn't too many...   ...3/14...no, I wouldn't look at it this way...the way I look at it, this is a kind of a farm program , to get prices up and the other things down... ...3/45...well he really didn't say to much, they had a speaker there...gordon really didn't say too much, the other guy did all the talking...   ...4/18....welllll, I think it was a little prejudice against him, you know...I thought they put more emphasis on those marshals than they did on gordon. It seem like they give em more credit for what he did...the marshals...   ...5/00 yeah,...the way I heard, this Muir, he wanted to make a big name for himself. that's the way I got the impression...I also understood they were drinking and they was going to go out an have a picnic you know, like when guys go out hunting, jackrabbits or something you know...well, they run into a picnic alright...5/27...they run into more than they bargained for...that's the impression I get, that they tried to make a name for themselves...   ...5/49...the way I understood, those charges were dropped, and he was not even to be approached anymore...that's in the book isn't it...   ...6/12...Joan had a , she probably mentioned Bud Warren? He mentioned that to her too, that these charges were dropped and he was a former marshal you know...   ...7/04...oh definately, and all the people that I've ever talked to, I'd say one out of a hundred disagrees, that otherwise gordon was in the right...except that percentage...once in a while I run into somebody that don't quite agree to it, but not very many...7/28...   ...7/40... well, that's getting pretty deep...that I ....well like these marshals I think they tried to make a name for themselves...that all I can say about that...   ...8/33...well I read a book about that , that len martin wrote...The Godfather of ND...that's about this dope, different people that are involved in this, names are mentioned too... ...see this happened after...but that don't really have aconnection with the other...   ...9/50...no, I ,...course the way things are going now I'm not too satisfied the way things are going in washinton...well I can't kick, but I've been at it a long time too...ever since I could drive a team of horses... it's easy now, I know what I'm doing...but see I don't have to pay interest anymore...see that helps, that's the difference, anybody that's paying interest is in trouble...I found out, seems like when I stopped paying interest it was easy to make money...   ...11/09...I don't think so...I don't think he ever looked for trouble....   ...11/35...well, he didn't like these blacks integrated too good and stuff like that... ... ...12/23...wellll, I think this income tax should be explained more, how it started and everything, ...he claims it wasn't radified by all the states and it shouldn't even be a law...that's as far as i can go on that...Ohio didn't radify it...   ...13/06...yeah...but, he figured that paying income tax was illegal, according to that...now that's the part I can't understand either, why someone else didn't find that out too. you know, that more people didn't say something about it...   ...13/46...so I mean there's other people that study that and they sure would have found that out too...   ...13/57...a good sense...he liked to laugh and joke... ...not really...   ...14/17...oh yeah, him and I used to play together...violin...oh say, I like that...   ...14/35...there we go, there's a fiddle and a violin...I'd like to be that, but I'm a fiddle...   ...15/00 ... .oh we used to sit and play for hours... ...I just can't think now, but we used to sit there and play for a couple of hours...   ...15/41...we have a little band now and we go around and play at the nursing homes...you know old time country and western music, that's what they seem to like, these senior citizens...   ...17/32...yea, right, they tore into that house that time you know...did she tell you what they did to that piano...they tore into that like a bunch of idiots, they smashed that piano up. I suppose they thought he was hiding in there! but she did get it repaired again and it looks pretty good, but oh that looked a mess, terrible...   ...18/28...as far as I'm concerned he was a very intelligentperson and honest, real honest and he had a good sense of humor like I said ...he didn't run anybody down that I know of...18/51... ...as far as religions or anything... ... ...19/07...the way it started, he didn't believe in paying income tax and that's where it started and they hauled him into court you know...and he served time you know and then this thing went on and on, they come out to pick him up a few times. And he says , I warn you guys, I'll let you go this time but don't come back again, cause you'll go back in a box if you do...and then they didn't bother him for a while and then I heard...what was I going to say, kind of slipped my mind... ...19/53...and that they dropped these misdeamenor charges ...and then all at once, here they come out in force with the marshals is going to capture them , and that's the end of the story....20/10... ... ...20/17...well I know that sheriff didn't... is the only detective work I ever done, cause I know they could't shoot each other in the back, that's impossible...my idea is that someone snuck up behind him and nailed him when he was, getting hard of hearing you know...he's watching tv and somebody snuck up behind him and shot him in the back of the head...thats' the only way I can get it...20/45... ...and then the sheriff now who got him I don't know, some of his own crowd I think, must have... ...cause they couldn't shoot each other in the back...that's impossible...   ...21/06 ...see there you go, didn't they find two bodies in there? who's the other one?... ...the...wasn't there two bodies that were burnt...21/18... (CUT W/FAHMY TALKING ABOUT THE MISPLACED BODIES BY STUDENTS) ...21/36...well, I kinda of understood there was more than one body in there and didn't Joan mention to you that they sent up the wrong body parts in a body bag...21/48... ...she was not satisfied...(laughs)...well wait a minute, who was that...that's what I gathered, that there was more than one body in there...be kind of interesting to find out woulnd't it...   ...22/30...there's a lot of people that don't...they figure he's still alive. I says no, no way. cause Joan would have heard one way or another...   ....22/50....well, I think that's a little rough. a little miscarriage of justice...near as I can figure out, Yorie didn't fire that first shot...did he or didn't he? See...no I think they got a bum rap...gordon admitted do9ing all of this himself... ...not close or anything like that, he was out on the oil wells... ...23/54...he was like his dad he liked to hunt...he liked guns...kinda of had a mind of his own...   ...25/02...but I could maybe get in touch with her and see if she could find some of those tapes...   END INTERVIEW @21:28/17 CREDITS with interviews of... Joan Kahl Yorie Kahl Lynn Crooks Toots Mathis Dennis Fisher John Noah Irv Nodland Bill Kennelly Prof. Ed Gran Jack McLamb Delores Everts Scarlet Skiftu Herman Widicker August Pankow Victor Seil Marlys Klimek Ron Perleberg Len Martin Brad Kapp Robert Holiday Tom Lee Ed Fitzpatrick Gene Nail Buford Terrell Marlene Gaysek Bob Ralston Darrel Graf Steve Schnabel Jack Swan Loreen Dyck Lorna/Loreen Mark Stagg Sheriff Ray Weatherby Jack Miller cinematography Tracy Adams Allison Hoffman Jeffrey F. Jackson production design Jim Haddon Peter Lloyd film editing Tracy Adams Martyn Hone Jeffrey F. Jackson original music by Tracy Adams sound department Tracy Adams Jeffrey F. Jackson stunts Rex Reddick produced by Jeffrey F. Jackson Angela Kaye writing by Jeffrey F. Jackson directed by Jeffrey F. Jackson CHRONOLOGY A timeline of the life of Gordon Kahl, from early childhood interests, to his marriage to Joan Kahl, his decorated military experience, his outspoken tax protest, the Medina shootout, and his unusual death in Arkansas in 1983. REVIEWS VARIETY /   Indie documaker Jeffrey F. Jackson sticks it to the IRS and the Feds in "Death & Taxes," a hard-hitting reinvestigation of the 1983 Gordon Kahl case, about which questions still linger. Jackson's unfazed, investigative reporting-style approach and inventive handling of familiar material make this a controversial item for fests and progressive webs. Non-U.S. viewers will also get a charge out of its conspiracy theme. read more CHRONICLES MAGAZINE /   Gordon Kahl was a simple farmer who became famous for not filing income tax returns. Imprisoned and hounded by IRS agents who never did prove he owed any amount of money, Kahl and his son were involved in a shootout with police. The son is still serving a prison sentence, but the father was surrounded and shot in Arkansas by police officers who mutilated and burned his body. read more GUNS & AMMO /   A new video documentary, Death & Taxes, details a case of government murderously out of control that was briefly mentioned in the October 1994 Guns & Ammo article "The Ugly Truth About Gun Control." Death & Taxes is the story of Gordon Kahl, a North Dakota farmer and decorated World War II veteran, and his apparent death at the hands of federal agents. read more

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This set of 6 DVD's comprises over 13 hours of uncut footage, including a 2+ hour prison interview with Yorie Kahl, and candid interviews with wife Joan Kahl. In this rich stockpile of research, you'll find many more threads than could reasonably be pursued in the final feature. A little-known fact regarding Death & Taxes is the surprising connection to Timothy McVeigh and the ATF / Oklahoma City Bombing. Here's a clip of Jackson sharing the story during a director's commentary on his film Postal Worker. The story of Gordon Kahl so captured the attention of mainstream America that it was turned into a highly-rated made-for-television movie titled In The Line of Duty - Manhunt In The Dakotas.

DEATH & TAXES is the story of Gordon Kahl, a North Dakota farmer who became America's "most-wanted" fugitive. How had a WWII war hero become the target of one of the largest manhunts in FBI history?

Was Kahl a racist, gun-toting fanatic? Or a victim of an IRS policy of harassing vocal tax protestors into silence to keep the rest of us intimidated? Did Bill Clinton conspire to cover-up the torture and execution of Gordon Kahl in Arkansas? Did federal agents mutilate and burn the body to cover-up the murder of the wrong man? DEATH & TAXES follows the trail of Gordon Kahl as his body is exhumed for a new autopsy. Building on newsreel clips covering two fiery shootouts and hundreds of interviews -- with IRS agents and federal prosecutors as well as Kahl's family and supporters -- D&T explores the myths and controversies surrounding a man who dared to challenge the federal income tax system. Some revile Kahl as a cop killer. Others revere him as an American patriot. Which was he?